Tamzin Outhwaite interview

Michelle:

So Tamzin, thank you so much for joining me. I'm really genuinely thrilled to talk to you because you are a bit of a dynamo, aren't you? You are literally the triple threat, singing dancing’s acting. But for all my listeners who may not know who Tamzin Outhwaite is, can you just give me like a teeny weeny summary of maybe your potted highlights.

Tamzin:

Career highlights, absolutely, yeah. So I would say I started, trained in musical theatre and drama and my first eight years of my career were in musical theatre, whether it was touring around the country or in the West End. And then I did a couple of bits of telly and then I got EastEnders. And then from then, what happened was, although theatre was my home, EastEnders and three and a half years learning my trade about how to act on television, all happened in front of millions of people. This was in the times when millions of people watched it. And since then, it's been, I would say, really a delightful journey. I mean, it surprises me and delights me still on a daily basis. I still absolutely love it. And I would say I go try and do theatre at least every couple of years because it feeds me and reminds me why I'm an actor.

Michelle:

A lot of actors say that, how they're drawn back to the stage because it feels that's like where you cut your teeth when you're in acting school and it's that camaraderie and rehearsal time and that living in the moment. And you just did Abigail's Party, which of course is like a fabulous Mike Leigh production. Good to be back on the stage, I would imagine.

Tamzin:

Yes, absolutely. Yeah, so last night I actually did go to the theatre with one of my co-stars of Abigail's Party and the director of Abigail's Party. And we're still in a little bit of a cloud, a fluffy bubble about it because we had such a wonderful time and it was very successful. And I think that reminded me that, you know, I do just love it. And I'm now doing a television, I'm doing a Channel 5 series. So I'm up and back and forth to Birmingham. And it has different qualities. And I do adore doing television and playing different characters and then they're done. But there's something about the theatre that you never have to watch it back so you don't have any, you know, criticism or ego about it. It's basically you're in it, you're in the moment and the immediacy from the audience, how you affect them is probably the root of why we start acting. So that instant gratification, or it's not even gratification, but the instant way that you affect an audience in whatever way that is, is almost addictive.

Michelle:

I would imagine it's that dopamine rush isn't it that that fix that that connection every night could be different it could be a different part of the play that really gets the reaction unexpectedly

Tamzin:

Yeah, absolutely. And of course, what we were doing was a comedy that on so many levels was a tragedy as well. And I suppose being, like you just said, in that every night, being in the moment every night, some bits hit harder than others for you as a performer, but also for the audience. And yeah, it's just an absolute pleasure to do something that you love doing.

I'm not saying every job gives you the same, you know, buzz and dopamine. It doesn't, but generally you can find something in every job that you learn from. You can find a friend on every job that you get inspired by and you inspire. Every transaction as an actor feels important, especially as I get older.

Michelle:

Let's talk about that then, because you just mentioned friends and friendship. And what I have seen from you is that friendships are incredibly important. And you have bonded and forged friendships with sort of a girl squad, if you like, or a number of girl squads. I really admire that about you, that those friendships, those relationships are so important. Do you think they've become more important in midlife?

Tamzin:

Yeah without a doubt. I mean, they've always been important, but I don't think that I really knew and acknowledged the power of women until I got older, because it feels like women get more powerful as they get older. like the transferring of power from friendships is a wonderful thing, being able to give that back to your female friends.

I mean, I'm just very, very lucky, but also at the moment, because I'm single, I suppose, I have very many male platonic relationships and I have many female friendships. I don't feel like I have time for romance because, yeah, because the great loves of my life, I'm so fulfilled by them.

Michelle:

really?

Tamzin:

my children, my girlfriends, my male friends, my family. I kind of feel like it doesn't feel like anything's missing. And I don't know if I'm just at that stage in my life where a romantic relationship is kind of a bit null and void because I get so much from everything else.

Michelle:

you referred to it as lucky. I don't think it is lucky. I think it's, get out what you put in with friendships and you get the trust that you earn. So, I mean, lucky is a lovely way of looking at it, but I really think that, you know, when you spend time and especially, I think in your forties and fifties, as you become a different kind of woman and you're embracing different kinds of challenges, but also possibilities. And I think you do that. Don't you? think you're quite

brave in your choices.

Tamzin:

Yeah, I'm getting braver as Donna Ashworth's book did teach me, which I got. Yeah. It's fantastic. And I honestly, I will read a little poem from that quite often, you know, a couple of times a week. And it's just affirmation, isn't it? It's just reconfirms to me that I'm on the right path, that it is right to be brave, that it's okay to challenge yourself, step out of your comfort zone. It's not time for me to sit down under a blanket and just watch TV at the moment. And so I suppose, you know, it's a very interesting and experimental time in my life. And it's at this stage, is, it's kind of a surprise.

Michelle:

Well, I can see that through some of the, some of the work that you've taken on or some of the challenges like the Masked Dancer, Strictly come dancing at Christmas. You are putting yourself out there for potential failure, but I mean, you got 39 out of 40, not bad with Nikita! Got to hand you it, but you are. And I think that's the bravery of a woman in her fifties is that we've kind of got the F-it filter. We're not bothered. you know, we can fail and we can get back up again, it doesn't bother us as much.

Tamzin:

Yeah.

And also learning that it's from the failures that you learn. When you work that out, it's like, feels like failing is almost important. Failing at relationships, failing at... That's how you learn. You don't learn from being continually successful. So I think, yeah, it's being comfortable, isn't it? Comfortable with failing.

Michelle:

That's true.

Now you're also very, I think you're very positive about aging, which I think is wonderful. And you know, there is so much talked about menopause and the symptoms and the bad bits, but I do wish that we could change that narrative a little bit and flip it because menopause is one day in your life and then you've got the rest of it, which happens to be really quite long these days, hopefully, if you look after yourself. Would you like to see it being approached more positively?

Tamzin:

This is it. Yeah. I mean...

Well, to be honest, when I started going through it, mean, everybody around me was like, I feel like I'm going crazy. I mean, the symptoms, when you actually looked into it, there were so many symptoms and they all seemed pretty negative, as you say. But then perimenopause goes on for a long time. Menopause, as you said, is a day and then it's done. Now it's not done. It's the beginning. For me, it feels like a rebirth, but I had to go through some messy bits.

to get to the rebirth. So the messy bits were like, a friend of mine saying, you know, get some HRT before you start getting the rage, before you start getting the sweat. So I was actually, I was ahead of the game because of people like Julie Graham and Kate Thornton who called me and said, you know, please do something about it because I didn't do something about it till I had three months of speaking to my partner and my kids or whatever terribly and it was them that said and I definitely at the time had a couple of moments with my partner at the time Tom and my kids where they were like mum are you all right and they were taking the mic out of me but instead of finding it funny I'd be like what and then I'd start crying now I just love it when they take the mic out of me because it means they're listening and they love me and they're safe enough to do it but really at the time I was, I didn't know why I felt, the main thing I would describe it as, it was I was spinning a lot of plates, looking after some people, running, you know, running different little businesses, as well as trying to be a good human, trying to keep fit, trying to stay in the loop work wise. And whereas that had always been just the level of commitment that I had to different things, suddenly I couldn't do it. I couldn't hold the plates. anybody coming, yeah, I was overwhelmed by everything and anybody coming to me with a problem that normally I would have fixed like that because I suppose a lot of women are fixers for everyone else and they're in communities and society. We're holding up an awful lot. And generally you find that it's the woman that's nucleus of that that's doing that.

So when they get to the menopause and they don't have the support, no one knows really how to support them. So everybody around them has to also learn about the menopause. But I think...

Michelle:

That's key. You're so right because it's not just us. It affects it affects our partners and our kids so much. you know, it's great that there is much more education and awareness around it, but it's still weirdly, I think does come as a blow. You said you're kind of surprised that how you you felt…

Tamzin:

Yeah.

I was, I couldn't believe that I was, became, I felt so incapable and I'd felt such an incapable human being up till then. I mean, definitely scatty, definitely ADHD, definitely messy, definitely disorganised, but I would still make my deadlines. My kids would be at school, their food, you know, but just the way I did it, my mum was a hippie. And I suppose my route to doing that was always a bit scatty.

But when it came to work, I was on the ball, I knew my lines, you know, it was just socially and stuff where it didn't matter so much. I've always been a disorganised human, I suppose. But when I hit the menopause, I couldn't even, like, the school run and dinner felt like massive. like, I've got 17 emails to answer. I couldn't even, the idea of doing one was awful.

Michelle:

Can I touch on that then?

Tamzin:

So I think then that's when you realise obviously it's about your hormones dropping. And the minute I got on HRT and worked all that out, of course you have days like it, but it's very doable. And also you reframe everything because suddenly it feels like, my God, my power's come back and this is a rebirth. Because now it's exciting. And also my female friends are going through the rebirth at the same time. So suddenly everything feels kind of sparkly and...

Michelle:

Great word for it! Sparkly! Yeah, possibility and sparkly!

Tamzin:

Yeah, possibility and the hope. And then I felt like I got my ‘ready break’ glow back because I always felt like somebody that could, and I'd recognise other little ‘ready break glows’ when people's energy was good energy, positive energy. And I felt like I lost that when I started hit perimenopause. But when it starts to come back,

It's just a wonderful thing because it's new as well. Liberating is a great word.

Michelle:

Liberating, isn't it?

Can I just touch on something that you said about your being so disorganised and scatty and you mentioned neurodiversity and ADHD. One thing that I learned fairly recently is that, you know, ADHD exacerbates, if you were never diagnosed with it, so many women in our phase of life suddenly exhibit the signs of ADHD in a much more obvious way. And it's because our oestrogen is reduced.

tamzin:

Yeah. Yeah.

Michelle :

But I had never realised that. And I think, you know, so many people are like, you think you're ADHD? You know, it's just the menopause, but it can just be, boom, we've got both, you know? And I think I would love to get that message to women as well, to not feel embarrassed that they're, you know, they miss appointments and they're late and they lose things and all other things. It could be, you know, the hormonal change, but it could also be undiagnosed ADHD. And it's always worth going to chat to your doctor about it.

Tamzin :

Yes.

I know. mean, I've got one that's that is diagnosed, one child that's diagnosed with ADHD. And I often think I've got it and then I'll meet people who definitely have been diagnosed and they're like, no, you're there's no doubt about you. And and people recognise it in each other, I think, because you're having a conversation, you can go off to that conversation to make pies appear, can thank the Lord and whoever the universe that the magpies have appeared, you can go off on that tangent about the magpies and your mum and come straight back into that conversation that we were just on and hit the same point. And I think that that's a classic sign, I think. So, yeah, I think I notice it. But, you know, who knows, I might not actually have it. I might just be, as my dad would say, you know, jumping on a trendy bandwagon.

Michelle:

I don't know about that. I think a lot of creative people do display those symptoms as well.

tamzin outhwaite (15:34.083)

Yeah, I agree. And also, I think it is a superpower when you're creating because you can hyper-focus. You can get completely unfocused, but also you can really hyper-focus and then almost get obsessed with things to make them.

Michelle (15:50.99)

decision-making, yeah, SOS, know, emergencies, you're good with all of those things. I want to get back into sort of the friendship thing because I think that your bonds with women, think really lead into perhaps, you're very well known for being advocate for women, for campaigning towards mental health, for really supporting women. You're a woman that walks the walk, doesn't just talk the talk. And I really admire that about you. Can you tell me, is there something about your life, what is it that drives you towards just helping other women all the time?

tamzin:

You know what? I feel like when my mum died, which is now six years ago, six years ago, we're seven in April, and when my mum died, I felt like I was given a superpower to take over from her. And it sounds ridiculous, but spiritually, I feel like I'm morphing into her or trying because she was an incredible human. And she was very much about helping other people, whether it was a man, woman, child, whoever. It was something in her that I think she knew she did it well and she was appreciated by people that she helped. And watching that and then experiencing the wave of grief that so many people that I don't know also went through, people that she helped get a mortgage, people that she helped when they were homeless, people that she helped that were a refugee. So there was something in her that naturally was very kind and empathetic. And the empathy that she had, I think I've always had, but it's almost like since she left us physically, I feel like spiritually.

I've had a rebirth myself and I often think, is that because my mum's just guiding me in the right way? Or is it something that's happened to me just because of age? But I think I'm a very open person because I'm in a phase of my life where that's the only way that I could live. Open to possibility, open to spirituality. You know, as I'm talking to you now, a Robin just landed out there and my mum's been the Robin and we always talk about the fact that, look, mum and my kids will be like, nanny. And so we'll talk to the Robin. And so I just feel like she's with me and she's watching me. And I think I always had it in me, but it was absolutely accelerated into a whole new wave of, of course I want to help other people. Why would you, what else would I do? Yeah.

Michelle: Stepping into her shoes. Yeah, that's another Donna Ashworth poem right there, isn't it? All about, you know, handing generationally our wisdom through women down the line. Exactly. Well, so that has now driven you to create We Free Women, which I've been watching and observing and the work that you do, if you can explain it, you'd explain it far better than me what you do, but it's a beautiful project.

tamzin:

Yeah, of course. I bet. Yeah, it's well, it's a CIC, which is basically a community interest company. And so it's completely nonprofit. And the first one, I just I financed myself and we did it in my home. And we had 10 women and it was all born from Instagram.

So I was on a retreat in the Dolomites on my own because I like to do a solo retreat and this only came about since I hit perimenopause where I couldn't hold everything together. So I would go on a solo retreat. would refill my own cup basically because our motto is you can't fill, you can't pour from an empty cup. So then I would come back into my life, rejuvenated and also with boundaries where I could not take on that energy. it's just really, it's self care, it's mindfulness, it's the stuff that really my mum always practiced without having labels for it, I suppose. And then when mindfulness became something that I practiced, it came from her. She talked about it first to me.

And then I went, so I went on a retreat two years ago now, actually this week two years ago, and I had lots of different treatments and it wasn't like just massage and facials, it was a shamanic healer. And so I had this incredible session with this shamanic healer and at the end I said, I'm really sorry I fell asleep. And he said, you didn't fall asleep. He said, you were shaking the whole way through it. Yeah, and I said, wow. Anyway, he said, go back to your room. He said, don't go on your phone. He said, just allow whatever's happening to come through you and go and lay down. And I did, and I laid there for a few hours. And I just remember that night, I wanted to thank the retreat for how I felt because I felt like something had cleared. Bearing in mind, he did an awful lot of healing over my womb, which was probably unhealed stuff. And then that night, I thanked them on Instagram and said what I've had. And basically, the amount of women that just were like, this is what I need. Oh my God, I wouldn't be able to get away from my kids for two nights. Or I don't have the money for a retreat. Of course, people paying for it, it's like thousands of pounds. can't just... And I thought, yeah, but how this could help so many people. It's almost like, it felt like it turned a tap on inside me. That was...

I have to keep this up for myself, but also now I know how this is helping in my own family unit and with myself. That ripples out, that filters down to everybody else, me being a better human, a kinder human, a happier human, it all trickles out. And I just basically on Instagram was like, what an amazing idea. And then I started to kind of connect with people and then suddenly there were all these practitioners that were coming on going, I'd like to help, let me help, I volunteer, let me do this. And probably within 24 hours, I had a team of people and I stopped on my own retreat and I started what felt like organising a festival. It was just like, well, I'm just gonna cancel that massage for now because this is my new self there. Yeah, and it felt like...

Michelle:

That's your purpose right there.

tamzin:

The first retreat was the most magical thing ever because us as Retreat Angels, or now they're my co-founders, I have six co-founders who are all incredible. Two of them were good friends of mine anyway, and I knew they'd be brilliant and they offered. And the other four I met through Instagram and through bringing them onto retreats. So I have Chrissy, who was basically our head chef and now she's a co-founder. She's nutrition, food. I have Becky, who does all of our comms and so much more.

And with Jen and Rachel and then my two friends, Maria and Kath have come on. Maria chooses the women and vets them all and Kath does so much. And we basically, between us, we have started what feels like a movement because we've got so many people that we work with now each time and everyone still does it for nothing. Everyone's a volunteer. We pay their travel expenses and I think what's happened is it's done as much for us as it has for the women. It's life changing. So for instance, we just did our fifth retreat last June and we're doing our sixth one in two weeks. And last June, the one that we did in Kent was just, I mean, the women came in and we had our welcome circle, 10 women.

tamzin :

they came in broken. had people from people that were terminally ill that had cancer that were young in their thirties to women who were struggling with the rest of their family and addiction. Women that had four kids and they just found out their husband was having an affair and they were pregnant. So these women needed to have a break from their own life to almost find out about their own power, learn the tools that we were gonna teach them so they could go back into their own life and feel their worth a bit more and work out what makes them feel good. I mean, it's literally breath work, a bit of exercise, yoga, walking in nature, foraging, nutrition, cooking, talking. I mean, it goes on, mindfulness, simple stuff, cold showers, stuff that doesn't cost anything.

Michelle:

That's really important, Tamzin, that you say that because I see that a lot in what you're doing. It's something that all women can do if they find the time and they work out how they can use these completely free resources, air, nature, water. We can all access that, but we forget to let ourselves and to give ourselves the time to do it.

Tamzin:

Yes, I mean we had women that arrived that said, I don't think I've taken a deep breath for years. Because it's almost like they were holding their breath whilst holding it up for everyone else and then they would hit heavy menopause and they couldn't. So we've had one retreat that's been kind of had a theme of cancer where the nutrition and the talks were based around that. We had one that is menopause where the women are just like just ill-informed, but being bombarded with a lot of information. And they have to work out what works for them. So we have this wonderful woman called Louisa Bradshaw White, who does ecstatic dance and breath work. And we try to end with the ecstatic dance. It's like a silent disco, and she takes you on a journey of an hour through music. And everyone has bare feet, and they're on the grass, so they're grounding at the same time.

Michelle:

But that sounds fun.

Tamzin:

And it's just, that's the one thing, I mean, we do join in a lot, but our angels, the people, all of our volunteers, we all join in that, so we all come together. And we've had the most spiritual experiences where we've all ended up cuddling in tears, dancing, and where it takes you, it's like, it's therapy. It's therapy without sitting down and talking about your problems. It's feeling them, letting them exist, letting them rise and dancing through them. That's what it feels like. Yeah.

Michelle:

and letting them out. There'll be people listening to this who thinking, my gosh, that's exactly what I need. How on earth could I be considered for this? So it must be really hard for the people who go through the nominations and applications. You'd want to include every single person. How do you handle that?

Tamzin: Of course, I mean, that's, well, we could do one every weekend and still not help enough people. An awful lot of it is finding a group that we think will blend well because they go off with a new support network and a new WhatsApp group and every one of the last five retreats, they're all still in touch with each other. They've made friends, you know, some people went back after retreats and they started the company that they've wanted to for years. They wrote the book. They left their husband that they should have done 12, 15 years ago. Things like that. It's really about reconnecting with yourself. So I think the way that people have to actually apply, normally they are nominated by someone else. So someone's sister, someone's mom. We've often had a sister nominate their sister.

And we've worked out that actually they both should come and they've come and shared a room and gone through it together. And we are trying, we work retreat by retreat. So it's not like we've got plans ahead. We have to be really flow like water because things change all the time and some people can't make it and we all have families and our own jobs. And so this next one, for instance, Maria has just chosen the women and

We have a database now of an awful lot of women and we're trying to go to different areas and then being a community interest company we're trying to use practitioners in each area so that you form a network for them. So then when we leave Somerset there's a little network that we've created in bringing people together with yoga teachers and people and nutritionists and masseurs.

Michelle:

So you're creating these pockets all over the country and women are finding their tribes that once they leave they've still got that support ongoing potentially for years. New friends that they've made.

tamzin:

Yeah!

Yes, that's exactly it. I mean, we've all been in tears reading messages at times where, because we come off like our, we have mental health Joe and Hannah, we have these mental health experts who are incredible that come onto the retreats to support them if anything comes up. And they've become really solid members of the team as well. And so sometimes we'll get forward in a message that's come from one of the groups that's, you know, a year, from a year ago, and they're still, still thanking us. Yes, yes.

Michelle:

ball keeps on rolling doesn't it because you're creating the momentum and you're creating the ripples that are going out they'll tell a friend you should look after yourself try more self-care carve out time for yourself so what you're doing has this enormous ripple effect

tamzin:

Exactly. It's the ripple effect. then people stop. I mean, our cups fill up from the people around us and then we pass that on. mean, for the actual, Chrissy will be making the food in the kitchen. Rachel will be bringing straggling yoga mats from here, there and everywhere onto grass. Becky will be doing everything. Maria will be bringing in the guests. Kat's doing food and this. mean,

Jen's doing this, we're all, and we don't all go on every retreat. We sometimes call in people that just keep contacting us saying, can I help? I wanna do something. And they want to feel the love. So we'll be in the kitchen and we, it's very much the practitioners. We have our little uniform and the women are outside with, know, practitioners and we're where we are in the kitchen. And someone will come in going, my God, I've just been in that session.

tamzin:

and that lovely woman is really opening up and it's really wonderful. And then we'll go and watch for a bit, you know, and just support. And then we'll all be in tears. And then we go back into our kitchen and we're like, I'm so pleased. You know, just at what we do. And it affects us too. It reminds us, it reminds us why we started it, you know? It's really, really something. I know.

Michelle:

It's so fulfilling.

Your mum would be so proud of you. You must feel that. that's just such, I mean, you said you had a Robin outside the window. Now I can imagine she just keeps watch over you and she can't believe the difference you're making to women's lives. This made me quite choked actually.

tamzin:

Me too. I really do think she can see it as well. Yeah. It's two years this week that, two, yeah, our first retreat was in three weeks time, yeah, two years ago. But what I thought of it in the first week of Feb. So it feels like it's, and the fact that, you know, none of my co-founders have dropped out. It's not.

Michelle:

I think so. you are amazing.

tamzin:

you know, we literally have five grand in the bank. M&S give us all the food every time. And what we do is with that money now, we normally rent a place. So most people give us their places for nothing, which is wonderful. But when we find somewhere that's perfect for it, we did rent a place once on our last retreat. And that's where the expense is. But

they did a really good deal for us. And it was so perfect because there was a yoga room and there were peacocks on the land and the place was beautiful. Sometimes we forfeit stuff because someone's going to give us a place. You know, we are literally in bunk beds, but we're trying to give everybody there a room each so that they can... On the first retreat, it was literally in my house and there were people sharing rooms, beds. So we've obviously moved on from that. But yeah, I think when...

Michelle:

how beautiful.

You've evolved from that.

tamzin:

I think when people are being gifted it, there's not a place really they don't complain about, know, they're just really, and they're so grateful. And the best thing I think about it is when these women arrive, a lot of the people that we choose are the ones that say, listen, I don't think I deserve this. When you're having the Zoom with them.

Michelle :

They're just appreciative of everything that you do.

tamzin:

They're always saying, I don't deserve this. I know people that deserve it much more. And normally you find they're the people that really need it. Because they just so, yeah, that's it. So what we try and teach them is if you put yourself first, your cup will be full. So, yeah.

:

They always put themselves last, don't they? Always at the bottom. Everybody else is above.

Michelle:

and it can overflow and help others. Do you think it's really helped your grief journey then? Must have done, yeah.

tamzin:

Yeah, as part of it, massive part of it, without a doubt. Because also I've been in situations doing breath work or where I've felt her presence. So without a doubt, yeah, I do feel her around me. And I'm very lucky because each and every one of my co-founders is, I mean, we've trauma bonded in some, when I say trauma bonded, I mean like we've seen and been through things all together.

That means the friendship is kind of on a different level. I suppose it's like when I did Freeze the Fear, I did this thing with Wim Hof in the Dolomites. And Gabby Logan and I, we all shared a massive tent for three weeks. And Gabby Logan and I hit a different level of friendship because we all did this breath work and she felt my mom. I didn't know her and she came over to me at the end and went, your mom's here. And we were all in this,

Michelle (34:17.609)

yeah, yeah I can imagine.

Michelle (34:41.486)

That's incredible.

tamzin outhwaite (34:43.126)

breath works and a lot of people are crying or going through things and she just came over and she held me and she went, your mum's here. And I said, I know. And she just went, oh, makes me tear up now. And she said, she just wants you to know she loves you so much. I was like, oh my God. And afterwards she did her interview and she said, I don't know Tamzin's mum, I've never met her. I don't know Tamsin.

Michelle:

That's beautiful though!

tamzin:

She said that that was, and she had a brother that died. And I think she's open. She's an open human, but I don't think she's ever experienced anything like that before. And so of course.

Michelle:

that connects you in a way that is just unbounding, isn't it? That your mother went through that channel to get to you. That's so beautiful.

tamzin:

Yeah, through Gabby Logan. Without, yeah, it is beautiful. And also my mum was Italian and we were in the Italian mountains.

Michelle:

how perfect. Perfect.

tamzin:

So, yeah, yeah. So I definitely feel like, yeah, the grief journey is, everything I'm doing is helping the grief journey. And it doesn't end the grief journey, you know.

Michelle:

think for anyone going through grief, that it's a real roller coaster. It can hit you in the face when you're in the supermarket and you see her favourite biscuits. Like today, there can just be moments when you see a Robin and it's like a punch, isn't it? A punch to the gut. Or just like a powerful feeling that comes over you.

tamzin :

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, it feels powerful to me now. It feels powerful. But you kind of have to flip your own narrative a little bit. You have to help that along. Because I think it's very easy for grief to just be dark and sad. And actually, it's not. There's so many other elements to grief, which are.

You know, the powerful, watching, like, knowing that my mum is guiding and helping more than just me is really comforting.

Michelle:

Yeah, you're channeling that grief into something so purposeful that you can't fail to have your heart full and to help it, you you carry on your journey. As I said, she, without doubt, she would be amazingly proud of you. Well, I know that people listening to this, not only that will there be people who would love to be on those retreats, but they would love to help. So how can they help either financially or offering their services? I don't want you to be overwhelmed, but you're probably...

tamzin:

Yes.

So, yeah, I mean, all, no, we always, we never turn down help, really. We always need it at some stage. So if you go onto the website, which is www.wefreewomen.org, on that website, there is a donate button, there is a volunteer button, and there's also how to nominate someone you think deserves it. Generally, we are trying to,

We're trying to be guided towards women that can't actually afford it because I think it's those women that they never get a chance to go on a retreat. And it changed my life going on retreats without a doubt. So if we can find women that financially are struggling, that is the first thing I think. And everything after that, I mean, we've got, I've got lots of people that come to me and say, can afford it, I know I'm not financially, but I want to experience a We Free Women retreat because all of those testimonials of it's changed my life. checked, you know, they're a massive advert for what we do because you speak to any one of the women that we've helped and they will all give you a really honest and incredible testimonial about what it's done for them.

So we have got people asking us that can afford it. So we're thinking of finding a way to do these retreats where we do one retreat and people pay, the people that can afford it pay. So we just do retreats with women that can afford it. And that we call it the pay it forward retreat. And that retreat pays for the next group of 10 women who can't afford it. So we're all about paying it forward.

and then we created a retreat called Pay It Forward. And instead of, because it's non-profit, instead of that obviously coming into We Free Women, it just goes straight onto the next retreat and we help another 10 women. So it helps the soul of the women that can afford it and it makes them feel like they're doing something. And that's what we are, we're a revolving door of helping women. But also, the best thing about it is our very first retreat, they came up with a great idea because we're always still...

moving and evolving. And the first retreat, the 10 women, they were so enamoured by the amount of love they were receiving that they said, can we please volunteer on the next one? Can we volunteer so that we become the angels? We said, it's a great idea, but I think mixing people that we've helped, bringing them into the kitchen or whatever, might be a bit tricky, mixing the... And also,

Michelle:

They need to have their own journey, don't they? They don't need to be told what's coming or how to react or any of those things.

tamzin:

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And also there is something about keeping it's their anonymity is very important. Like when we're posting pics of everything, we don't show them because some people went there in confidence, you know, and secret and didn't tell people, but they knew they needed it. So yeah, it's it's an ever evolving being at the moment, but it is a movement and I'm very proud of it and how it touches people, the way that it touches people when then they want to help again or is just really that's magical. Yeah.

Michelle:

extraordinary isn't it and that is the power of women I think when women genuinely support women we are absolutely off the charts with what we can offer. Amazing.

tamzin:

I know, really are. You know what they say, don't you? They say, if you want something done, ask a busy woman. And that is, that somehow I have these five, six co-founders who are extremely busy, but they love doing it so much. Yeah.

Michelle:

They find the time, they find some way of doing it. You are teasing that there's some exciting news coming on Instagram. Are you gonna share it with me? This won't be coming out until March, so it won't be a spoiler.

tamzin:

Yeah.

Okay, it won't be a spoiler. Well, we are collaborating with Donna Ashworth.

Michelle:

my favourite, favourite person! I was literally just reading her this morning.

tamzin:

Yeah, brilliant. But we're also collaborating later on with Their Nibs, the pyjamas. So basically what we're doing with Donna is we're going to do a live, we're going to do a photo shoot, we're going to actually set some bits up and it's happening quite organically, but she is so wonderful and she gives a proportion of her profits to a charity and she always has, but she's just about to switch to our charity, so we'll be the chosen charity for a while. So that'll be lovely. It's a perfect fit.

Michelle:

That is a perfect partnership. What you're about and what she, she's such an empath and she has such an intrinsic understanding of women and articulates our grief and our emotions and our wisdoms and our, so many things. She is remarkable as a woman.

tamzin:

I know.

She's so clever. She's such a, but also she's, she's like, there's something about her that's kind of, she's got a business brain, but she's an empath. And so she saw something in us and what we were doing. And I've always loved her book since the first one. So the fact that it's a two way street. we were supporting each other a while back. And I think,

She gives, I mean, when we do a retreat, she'll send 10 books and we put them in the bed. But she also has, now she's got her journal. So at some point she's gonna actually come on the retreat and do a talk and like a session on journaling and how poetry and reading and writing actually helps you. She's got a wonderful understanding of the human psyche. She really does.

Michelle :

And her journal would be so perfect of course.

tamzin:

And she, like you say, she's so eloquent and she's very talented at writing. she's just this all-around beautiful energy.

Michelle:

She gets my vote for poet laureate, I think. We need someone. We need Donna to get poet laureate. What a beautiful way to end, I think. I'm so glad that you and Donna are partnering up. That really is a outstanding partnership and I'll be looking forward to seeing more on that. So again, I just want to reiterate if anybody wants to nominate or to help offer their services or just support actually.

tamzin:

Yes, definitely.

Michelle:

Go to your Instagram, that's WeFreeWomen or to go to your website is WeFreeWomen.org

Tamzin:

WeFreeWomen Instagram or WeFreeWomen.org. Yes, excellent.

Michelle :

You are an absolute star, Tamzin. Thank you so much for joining me. And I offer my support in any way I possibly can to your incredible charity. It's amazing.

tamzin:

Thank you so much, really appreciate it.