Spilling the Tea with Tova Leigh: Why Gossip Isn’t a Dirty Word
- Two Women Chatting
- 3 hours ago
- 24 min read
Season 9 - episode 9
So, joining me on Two Women Chatting is the brilliant Tova Leigh. She's a writer, performer and social creator known for her fearless honesty and razor sharp humour. From her blog, My Thoughts About Stuff to her viral videos and bestselling books like F'ed at 40, Tova has been empowering women to embrace their imperfections and speak their truths. So, whether she's tackling motherhood or midlife or marriage, she does it with a very refreshing blend of candor and comedy and I'm really thrilled to have her here. Thank you, Tova, for joining me today.
Tova
what a lovely intro. Thank you so much. I'm really happy to be here.
Michelle
I have to confess Tova, this is the very first time that I've ever done an interview, and I've done hundreds now, that I almost don't know where to start because the more I get to know about you, the more I was researching you, the more I was like, she covers so much. She's like, she's funny. She's a journalist. She writes stuff. She fights stuff. She campaigns and she uses her voice. Where do I even begin? So help me find a base…. Where do we begin? Could you give me a little bit about who you are, how you came to have this enormous social media platform and the way that you reach others.
Tova
First of all, that's really kind. But I feel like I could say that about so many women. Don't you think that, Michelle? Like so many, right? Like all my friends. Honestly, if I had to describe any one of them, I'd go like, where do I start? When do you sleep? How do you manage it all? Right? It's yeah, for good and for bad. Because sometimes it's like, it's bad because you're like, I can't.
Michelle
Well, that is true. We are finding our voices,
We don't know when to stop, do we really?
Tova's Journey: From Law to Creative Expression
Tova
We don't know when to stop. Yeah, exactly. But I do, I have a lot of energy and I do have a lot of things that interest me. And I guess the short version of the story is that I'm turning 50 this year. I'm living my 50th year and I feel still like I'm 10 years old, not quite sure what I want to be when I grow up because I just want to be so many things and I want to do so many things. I started my career as an attorney.
I practiced law for a few years in Israel, which is where I was born. And I was a very dramatic lawyer. just, I loved performing in court. I basically, I thought I was Ali McBeal, you know? So I was like completely over the top, ridiculous, but I couldn't understand why people were taking themselves so seriously. Obviously the topics were serious, but we're people.
And I realised very quickly it wasn't for me. So then I did a quick pivot, as you do, into acting, which brought me to England, did a master's in performing arts, fell in love with performance, but also storytelling, just in general. And really I've always been a writer at heart. think I love telling stories. I love telling stories about people, about women. And I didn't like the idea of sitting around and waiting for some director to tell me that I got the part. So I started writing parts for myself. And then I did a bit, a few kind of like short films and, you know, did the whole festival scene, taught myself how to edit, taught myself script writing, all that. And then I met my husband, got married, had three kids in the space of two years, just realised, yes, that I couldn't be an actress and thought that was it.
You know, that kind of part of my life was over. And as I was working in an office, as an office manager, I am basically slowly dying because I didn't have that creative outlet that I so desperately needed. I decided to start a blog and that was my thoughts about stuff. And this was 2015.
Gosh, it's gonna be 10 years. Wow. And yeah, started the blog and honestly, I mean, I had never expected it to go the way that it did. I didn't have a plan. It would be such a lie to say that I went into this thinking I would, you know, this is where it would end up. I didn't, I just went with, with just what was coming. You know, the whole like say yes, when an opportunity comes, just say yes, figure it out later. Like that's how I always do things. I just say yes. And then I’m like we'll figure it out. know, when we did the first, cause I performed now, I've done a couple of tours. did a tour in America and I just rocked up one morning to the office and said to my assistant, let's do a tour in America. Like we've never done it, but let's just do it. Let's just do it and see what happens. And it sort of, it somehow worked out. so yeah, so since then the blog and, and then I started doing videos and books came after that and all the rest of it. and it's been bliss.
Michelle
Right, so you've had a number of best-selling books and you've got a new book coming out, which is what I want to touch on, because I am loving that Good Girls Gossip is coming out on 10th of June - and you are reclaiming gossip. Tell me how they took it away from us and made it so ‘mean girl’. And really, it's all about sisterhood, isn't it?
Empowering Women Through Community and Retreats
Tova
Yeah, so the book, the whole book is really about female empowerment and reclaiming not just the word gossip, but so many parts I think of womanhood and sisterhood that I do think we've been robbed. I started doing female empowerment retreats. This is how the book came about. So I've been living in Portugal now for nearly three years.
And when I came to Portugal, thought, well, I'm now living in a country that actually is very sunny and warm. This is a great opportunity to do something that brings women together, but physically. So I've built this online community and women from all over the world are part of this community. And it's all really fantastic, but you don't get to actually meet them in person. And many women actually live in isolation, especially in remote areas, whether it's in the States or wherever.
There's this sense of actually loneliness because we don't have women communities so much as, as we used to. So the idea was creating this retreat where women can come and spend time together and we put together a program. And then also, I have to say they go off and a stay in touch. It's like friendships for life. But beyond that, they went away with a sense of, I'm going to build communities where I, where I am at home. So.
Michelle
Right. Creating tribes everywhere.
Tova
Yes, creating tribes. And this blew me away because this again was not the plan, or at least I didn't think it was the plan and it became the plan. And then I had people write to me later and said, I went home desperate to find women's circles and realised they don't have women's circles in my area. So guess what I did? I created women's circles and now we have it. Like amazing.
Michelle
So it's this ripple effect that you've had through your retreats to empower women to go and find their voices and share those voices and find that sisterhood really.
Tova
Yeah. And that's the book basically. That's what the book is about. I try to bring the learnings from the retreats and all the topics we talked about in the retreat and the idea of creating those communities into a format that is more accessible to more women because obviously the retreats are quite small and they're quite pricey and not everybody can take time off. But I do think there's something there that can be very easily adapted take it and get a lot of it. And I just thought the book format is a really good way to get it out there to more people. And I tell a lot of stories about other women as well, because I take so much inspiration from other women. So it's of course part of the book.
Michelle
Now, gossip, which is the whole basis of the book, is it was taken away from us. It used to be a good thing. And then these days it's considered very negative that it's only mean girls and bitchy women who gossip about others. But tell us what the original meaning of gossip was and why we lost the positive aspects of it.
Reclaiming Gossip: The Power of Female Connection
Tova
So I didn't know this either and I came across this probably around a couple of years ago and just came into my awareness that the word gossip originally didn't mean what we see it to mean today or what it means today. And in the most simplest form, I guess what it meant was, yeah, close friendships. It's what women did. So a lot of the times around, you know, giving birth. So women would be together in that setting and there'd be a lot of talk and it would be a transfer of knowledge and wisdom and yeah, and you know, just coming together, helping sisterhood, know, championing each other, just talking and close friendships. And then I guess over time when patriarchal systems started to come into play,
And I guess women's, listen, women's greatest strength, right, is in our ability to communicate because we are amazing communicators. We bridge things. That's what women do. It's our superpower and communities, building communities. These two things are, are women's superpower. And imagine how threatening that is. Imagine.
Michelle
That's very scary, isn't it?
Tova
How threatening that is. So what would be the best way to stop that? vilify, vilify it, vilify the core of it. So yeah, so gossip at some point became over time vilified and, you know, got all these negative connotations, know, chitty-chatty women, chatting like, know, all these sayings, you know, and it's like, I do talk, malicious talk.
Michelle
of about people not to people wasn't it? it was kind of reframing it that it's always about people as opposed to just women or a group of women just chatting and as you say sharing knowledge. It didn't need to be or it isn't talking about Sandra wearing a short dress and looking like mutton dressed as lamb. You know, it doesn't have to be horrible.
Tova
Yeah, but the thing is, yeah, but it also can be about Sandra. And I think that we learn a lot from, I mean, I don't know about you, but I certainly learn a lot about, you know, my friends' stories. And sometimes I do talk about other friends, but not necessarily in a malice way. So for example, I'll have a friend who's going through something and I'll say, do you know what? But my other friend, she went through something really similar…., there's a very big difference between talking, am I allowed to swear on this podcast? Okay, so talking shit about someone and being obviously malicious and you know, and I don't know, even saying things that aren't true to taking people's experiences in life and using them as lessons in life, as life stories, like this is not a negative thing. We learn from stories. And again, think about how knowledge was passed down back in the day. This is exactly how it was passed down through stories about people. What are the stories going to be about if they're not about people? Of course they're going to be about people. So yeah, so that's kind of like where I was coming from. And it suddenly hit me when I even look about modern day, silencing women even today is such an effective tool in yes, stripping women from power. And you see it also in extreme cases, like, you know, things that are happening in certain regions in the world where Afghanistan where women literally are not allowed to talk to other women anymore, or rather in a group.
It's not that outrageous because it's still happening today. And when women are called, you know, kinds of names now because they were opinionated or because they said something and it's all in an attempt to silence women and to yeah, to strip away that basic power that we have. for me, you know, the word gossip I know comes with a real negative connotation for a lot of people. They see gossip and they think about mean girls, gossip girls, what you just said. But it was very important that that title was actually on the cover of the book because it was like, no, I'm going to stand here and reclaim this word because that's not what it is. and yeah, and I value the time that I spend with my friends talking about our life and talking about each other's lives and talking about other friends lives because we learned from that and we're not, we're not doing anything bad. So that was like how the title came about.
Setting Boundaries: A Path to Empowerment
Michelle
You talk a lot in the book about power, finding your power through various different ways and through setting boundaries, which I think women can be terribly bad at. You know, we're so used to putting ourselves last on the list of needs and priorities that we do forget to set those boundaries. And what I really liked was one of one of your quotes is, no is not a rejection.
Tova
Yeah. But you know, like, again, for me that, so we do a whole workshop, we actually have a whole day at the retreat that's dedicated to boundaries. And it's very important because boundaries, think make, they create a safe space. Like you, when you know that the person in front of you has boundaries, that they are aware of their boundaries, that they know how to keep their boundaries, then you know you're in a safe space because you know that you can bring yourself and you can bring your truth and there's no danger there because the person in front of you is a person that's capable of saying, actually, Michelle, that's my boundary here. And then you're clear, exactly. But what was really interesting was I think none of us like rejection. It's very natural. We don't want to feel rejected.
Michelle
and then we're clear, we know.
Tova
But once you reframe it as when someone says no, what all they've done is basically express their boundary rather than reject you. I found it so liberating. you know, so we have a whole workshop and we do it very early on. And that's why it's quite early in the book as well, because it just takes away that kind of like, you know, walking away, feeling quite hurt and making it about you rather than saying, actually, this is fantastic. And also I do believe that we mirror each other when we as women are able to exert our boundary. We show other women that actually, you know, having boundaries, expressing your boundaries is absolutely fine. And I do think again, there's a ripple effect, you know, it's an invitation for everybody to do that.
The Evolution of Women's Friendships in Midlife
Michelle
entirely acceptable and of course it's the opposite of people pleasing which I think we fall into so much is that you know we don't want to you know cause trouble we don't want angst or it's easier to say yes often than it is to say no and then we end up overloaded and unable to cope and so I think boundaries are really important and I think midlife women are very very good now about talking more about prioritising themselves it used to be considered, I don't know, selfish. You know, we're supposed to be looking after family and relatives and friends, all those things, before we look after ourselves. you know, it's all part of putting that oxygen mask on, isn't it? That if we don't fill our cup, and actually you mentioned, which I really like, is getting other people to fill that cup too. That's a good idea because it doesn't all have to come from us finding our own energy and adding to it and adding to it we should expect some filling of that cup from the people that we surround ourselves with.
Tova
Yeah, and you're right. It's a very hard thing, I think, for a lot of women to do. certainly am part of that. I, you know, I'm a very capable woman. Like we're all very capable women, right? I can multitask in my sleep, you know, it's like, but here's the thing, like just because I can do it doesn't mean I should do it or have to do it or want to do it even all the time. And I do love that you touched on midlife because it's so true. I feel like
I don't know, something happens to women when we hit 40, right? So much does it. Anyway, that's it. And I feel like it just gets better because I'm nearly 50 and I just know something big is coming. I already know it. And I have friends who have already reached 50 and they're like, just you wait, it gets so much better.
Michelle
I like to call it the F-it filter, like anything goes.
Tova
And I think it's good because I'm sure there's like so much psychology, by the way, that goes into that, you know, the stage you are in life, something happens there. It's probably hormonal, but it's a lot of things. And I definitely felt it when I turned 40 and that's when I started writing F***d at 40, my first book and it was like reclaiming what I've lost, putting myself in a priority list, thinking a lot about the whole like, am I selfish? Am I not selfish? Is it selfish? You know, and now that I've kind of like gone through all of that and with this book and nearly being 50, I'm not there at all anymore. I like, I'm not even debating the whole selfish question at all. I'm really thinking about that second part, the letting other people fill the cup as well. And actually, it's a much more gentle approach almost, like taking a step back, not by saying, I need help.. It’s just taking a step back and actually trusting and knowing that it's okay. It's enough. and, and that to me was harder than anything else because it's like a surrender because actually empowerment can look like so many different things. Obviously in the book we touch on pleasure and needs and boundaries and shame and lots of other things. But I also think that there's something to be said about just letting go.
Michelle
Yeah, that is empowering and also part of that is the boundary to just say, no, I can't tell you the times when I've said, no, I'm not gonna take that on actually, maybe you do that. Or it's like that weight that comes off your shoulders. I've been doing an event for five years and this year I put my family first, I said, I'm not gonna do that event. My gosh, it was like, literally, I lost pounds just mentally, just saying that.
The Importance of Female Friendships
Michelle
Now, I want to switch slightly. You talk about friendship a lot and I do think that women's friendships change a lot in midlife and become more powerful. We become more selective. We perhaps don't need as many and we just rely on that wonderful bonding with less people but it means so much. Would you agree with that? That transition of friendships through a woman's life for a season, for a reason perhaps? -in fact, is just a wonderful thing really.
Tova
Yeah. Wasn't there a research that actually showed that women, I think, well, women live longer than men. And one of the reasons I think that they've established is because of the connections and the friendships that women have. There's so many great things in life and I am very happy with my kids and lots of things, my work, all the stuff in my life. I feel like my friends are the, they're the cherry on top. Like they are the thing. Really, they are because there's nothing better than just spending time with women. can't take it. And laughing and just, it's the best. It's just the best. Women are so brilliant and funny, and you can say anything to them and they have shared experience. They get it. You know, you could have like the most amazing husband and, know, and a lot of women do. And my husband's great as well. And he, gets it and he really is, but he'll never get it. Like my girlfriends ever, ever impossible, impossible. And I'm very lucky. You know, we came to Portugal and it was like starting over.
So obviously I've got my friends from the UK that I'm still in touch with. have a very good friend from Israel. She's probably my oldest friend who I speak to on the phone very often, but I haven't, I don't see her every day. And we actually voice note each other every day. we send each other podcasts every day, like podcasts. And it's, it's, again, it's so fun. like checking in, you know, so this is what's going on and this is what's happening. This is what I'm thinking.
Michelle
I love that idea of sending voice notes because sometimes you don't have time for a full phone call but if you could put down like ‘hey how are you I'm thinking of you I'm doing this today but I'll be thinking of you’ - I love that I'm gonna do that!
Tova
it's so good. Cause then you listen, you can listen to their podcasts like in the car or like if you're at home cooking, whatever you're doing and you're just like, it's in your ear and you're hearing her podcast. Exactly. It's so great. It's really great. but I, we've been really lucky cause actually coming out here, I've met such incredible women in such a short space of time. And I actually think being in a, in a country that is not my home or their home either because they’re from different places in the world.
Navigating New Connections
Tova
So they don't have family. They don't have friends. I don't have family. We don't have friends. It's like it puts you in a place where you're like, right, we got to make friends fast and they have to be really meaningful very, very quickly.
Michelle
I know what you mean, I've done that myself because I've lived around the world and it's like speed dating, isn't it? Like, okay, let's find that connection really quickly. it's not just because of your children. I don't just need you as an emergency contact, even though I don't know if you have a criminal record! It's like, yeah, you get me, I get you, this is great. And it's like a really powerful quick connection that women are very good at doing. I think men often feel quite lonely and isolated when we're moving and really need partners who are good at that socializing to filter out who's going to be fun to be with, who's going to be supportive and part of that journey. Right, I want
Tova Leigh
It's very true, know, Mike's made lots of friends here too, but sometimes he comes home and I'm like, so what did you talk about?
And he's like, oh, I don't know. So you were with them for three hours. What did you talk about? I mean, it's very funny. It's very funny.
Michelle
so meaningful - Beer was good though!
Understanding Andrew Tate and Toxic Masculinity
Right, so that's the great side about being a woman. I would like to switch gears because Andrew Tate.
Tova
Yes. That's a very swift change!
Michelle
Andrew Tate, yeah it's a big old change because as a midlife woman it's taken me by massive surprise how and who is he? How has he managed to make kids hate their female teachers? How has he brought this toxic masculinity? And it is all about sort of de-powering isn't it? It's un-powering women. Can you as the articulate journalist and ex-solicitor that you are, tell me a little bit about who he is. Because I know my listeners are like, bit bewildered by this whole, like, movement. We don't really get it. How has he got so much power himself?
Tova
Have you watched the Netflix show Adolescence? Yeah, because I thought they did a really good job in showing, you know, I guess, yeah, I thought they did a really good job in explaining how this could happen to anybody. And it's funny because you talked about men feeling lonely. And that really, I think, is the core of how people are impacted.
Michelle
Yes, yes, amazing.
Tova
I mean, Andrew Tate is only one amongst many who talk and do the same thing online. It's the whole kind of incel, red pill, black pill ideologies, which basically empower men to go back to what it used to be to be a man, while at the same time, obviously belittling women and degrading women and etc. He specifically obviously has a very big platform and I think he was an kick boxer so he had a following. Yeah, and he's done like an online Academy etc. So I think he had he got a lot of publicity, but he's actually not the only one out there spreading this kind of toxic masculinity ideology etc. But what they do is they prey on vulnerable boys.
So it's usually boys that are actually not necessarily the most popular boys, maybe not the most confident boys, maybe not the most attractive boys, I don't know, boys that don't necessarily have a lot of luck with girls. And they basically say to them, I will teach you how to be a man. I will teach you how to be a man that women want and that can get any girl you want. But they obviously don't use those nice words. They use a lot of derogatory words to describe women and girls. the ideology, the stuff that they say to them is very toxic because what they say is real men don't cry, real men don't ask for help. If you feel bad, go to the gym, not to the shrink. And yeah, and basically that's in the nutshell. And a few years ago, this has now been a few years, because it's like, so much has evolved since then, but a few years ago when it was like at the height, I did a talk at one of my kids' school because I devised a talk about what was about the dangers of social media in general, specifically TikTok, just because it was the youngest app and so many kids were on it. And then I also realised a lot of parents had never heard about Andrew Tate and I knew that the kids were talking about him on the school playground because my daughters were telling me so and my daughters were at the time 10 years old so these are 10 year olds right and so I devised this talk and the talk covered a lot of areas but one of the areas was toxic masculinity and I talked about how it impacts boys specifically and when I came out of the talk there was a dad sitting on the bench looking quite distraught and I was like, hi, are you okay? And he just went, I am in shock. He said, I now for the first time realise what has happened to my son. And he said, my son is 16 now and this has been something that's been going on for two or three years. Obviously now I feel like it's too late because he's 16. What am I going to do now? Take the phone away from him. Like, what am I going to do?
But all the things that you were showing us in the videos that Andrew Tate says, and I now realise that my son has said, and I never understood why he was saying it, where he was getting it from, what this was. And he's isolated himself from his friends, he's in his room on his phone, all of that. And he was just completely in bits, this dad. And then I realised, my God, this isn't just happening somewhere in the world. This was my community. This is a father with a child that was older than my kids, at the same school.
The Impact of Technology on Masculinity
Michelle
And it's sort of throwing it back as well at women because men have gone out to work, they're out of the house, and the women who staying at home and the female teachers are spending too much time feminizing men and making them weak, where they should be out there with the men, doing hunting and shooting and that kind of the old stereotypes of a father and his son have changed so much.
Men don't spend as much time with their sons teaching them ‘how to be a man’ and the women of the house or the women of education are spending more time making them talk about their feelings and you know just emasculating them or at least that is the charge on them which is why it's scary for me to think how female teachers are being treated in schools right now. We have a teaching crisis when we need more teachers.
What young woman is wanting to go into that environment to have such vitriol thrown at them? It's a really scary time. Do you think we'll be able to overcome this with education and awareness or films like Adolescence bringing it to parents who didn't realise that's why their kids were sullen and in their rooms and speaking so unkindly or not getting dates or whatever it was? Do you think we're going to get to the other side of this or, you know, we obviously have lot of work to do to redeem where the situation is right now.
Tova
Okay, people kind of like take it two different ways. Like there's a male, you know, there's like a male identity crisis. And then of course people get annoyed like, male crisis. I get it. Like it can be quite annoying to say that, but I do actually believe that that is true for young boys. I'm not talking about the old, you know, the older men who are maybe kind of like, I dunno, taking the, taking advantage of this moment to say, whoa, is me, but like the younger boys, you know, the younger boys.
There is a gap there and that's why the likes of Andrew Tate have managed because there's a gap and always when there's a gap, it's an opportunity. So what happened and how I see it is women have come such a long way through the first wave of feminism to change in our place in society and of course it's still an ongoing but my point is that when you think about where women were fifty years ago to where we are today in the western culture - it’s like it's massive, but men on the other hand haven't gone through the same process.
So men have stayed still. Like, yes, haven't really adapted, haven't really found, you know, their place in a way. And I do think that that gap is what has allowed all of this to sort of happen.
Michelle
kind of static in many ways, haven't they? Yeah.
Tova
But the second part of what I wanted to say is, do I see any hope or whatever? I always want to be optimistic and I do think education is key and I do think parents need to be aware. And I do think these conversations need to start very early at school, at home, everywhere. But I also want to say that while Adolescence and all of these conversations are great, the issue is that technology, which by the way, is at the heart of a lot of this because it makes a lot of this much more accessible than ever before. Because toxic masculinity was always out there. It's not like he didn't exist. But the point is that it's now much, much more accessible, you know, and it has a far bigger reach. but the thing is that things are evolving so quickly within the technology that we're already at the next phase. I mean, AI is just has, it has presented such horrific things that I can't even tell you. And again, people are only coming to understand now what red pill means, but AI bots that are talking to children now replacing relationships, bots that are called toxic boyfriend telling young girls not to tell things to their parents and objectifying them, rape games in schools. I mean, the level, it blows your mind. We're always going to be a step behind because it moves so fast, so fast. And I don't know what the answer is.
Michelle
I know almost regulation is almost too late at this stage because it is beyond that and you know maybe it is like banning phones for children under the age of 16 or something and maybe it has to be something but it's got to be kind of global because otherwise kids talk to each other there's always there's always a way.
Tova
Yeah, I do think, and I know a lot of people don't like that idea. I know I'm not a big fan of like, you know, big bans, et cetera. However, you know, there was a time where we all smoked on airplanes. Do you know what I mean? I remember in the 80s not wearing car seat belts. like, do you know what I mean?
Using Humor to Address Serious Issues
Michelle
One of the things I absolutely love about you is you're so funny, you create this wonderful digital content, which is incredibly engaging and gets so many people watching you. But I think, you shine a light on a lot of different things through humour, which makes it really accessible. So like some of your videos about things that you would say to a woman that you would never think of saying to a man and we just accept that as the norm. Some of these kind of passive micro-aggressions if you want to call it, like, how much were you drinking last night or you might want to rethink that outfit if you want to be taken seriously at work. You'd never say those things to a man, would you? Now, and with your partner with Rhianna O'Connor, the two of you are very, very funny. My goodness, I was rolling on the floor laughing as they say. Do they still say ROFL?!
I don't know. I think I'm stuck in the 90s here or something! But do you find that a really fun outlet?
Tova
Yeah, first of all, I love Rhianna. I met her a few years ago when I was doing pajama party and confessions on Facebook every Friday night. Basically an excuse to just get a little bit drunk in bed. That was it. And then she was one of the guests and we just fell in love instantly. She's a really good friend. And she's obviously a very talented singer and songwriter. So we do a lot of parodies together, which is great because it lets me live out my real dream, which was to be a singer, but I was never really good enough to be - so I guess I get to sing. I find that comedy is a really great tool to make things accessible. And I never considered myself a comedian ever, even though I do one woman shows and they are funny. But I think that, it's just such a great way. Cause when you say something and you make it funny and then people are a less threatened by it, you know? And secondly, some of them might wonder, wasn't it serious? Wasn't it serious? But you got away with it because you said it. So now it's out there, you know?
It's Good Girls Gossip, reframing gossip for the good because it is empowering and it is bringing the sisterhood back together. We should love a good gossip. I've really enjoyed gossiping with you today Tova. Thank you so much for being part of Two Women Chatting and I'm definitely going to come and see you in your show on the 24th and I would recommend anybody to follow you on Instagram or any of your platforms and thank you for being the voice that is so passionate. You take on body shaming, ageism, sexism, you name it, you'll take it on. So keep roaring, you're amazing.
Tova
Thank you so much, Michelle. was a pleasure. Thank you.
Tova Leigh’s book Good Girls Gossip is out on 10 June. Click here to buy.
She is also doing a one woman show on 24th July in London called Honey I’m Losing It!. Click here for more information.
The full episode is available on YouTube and all podcast platforms. Please leave a review and tell your friends - that’s the best kind of gossip!
